Call me Barbara Walters.
I’m here with some hard hitting journalism. It’s the showdown of the year….in one corner we have Benjamin Moore Advance paint…a waterborne interior alkyd that boasts being the best for painting cabinets…and in the opposing corner, we have Sherwin of the Williams clan. Sherwin ProClassic is also a waterbased acrylic-alkyd. Both heavyweights. Both big hitters. And both up for the fight of the title of best cabinet paint. known. to. man.
That was me being as dramatic as possible. Go back and read it with the soundtrack to Gladiator in the background. It sounds better.
Seriously though…we painted our cabinets with Benjamin Moore’s Advance paint and assumed that it would be the best (I read in a ton of different places that it was the best waterbased paint for cabinets out there). But then I was really disappointed because it was taking FOREVER to cure. It didn’t seem hard as nails like everyone said. So I decided for the benefit of all humanity that I would test the same type of paint in Sherwin William’s formula on our island.
The island had been primed just like the rest of the cabinets but it was never finished because we had always planned to paint it a different color than the Simply White.
You can really tell in certain shots that it was just primed…no top coats whatsoever.
Sorry about the crummy photos…my camera was getting cleaned and my lens repaired so these are all my iphone pics.
Anyhoo…this is after one coat.
Sorry about the crazy coloring…
Here’s what I came away with…the Sherwin’s went on really really smooth. It was super easy to apply and I didn’t have any real troubles with drips like we did when we sprayed the Benjamin Moore cabinets.
Overall, I thought that it was a really nice consistency of paint…not too thin or thick…and it seemed to cover pretty well considering I like to do really thin coats.
I didn’t like the color though. It doesn’t look like the swatch I gave the fella at the store. And I am usually pretty good with color. So I am thinking that maybe the color matching wasn’t such a great idea. If I bought this paint again, I would definitely do one of the Sherwin Williams colors because they probably have those formulas down pat.
And even though it’s still a very pretty muddy gray, the undertones are all wrong in real life with our walls. Since the wall color is more of a bluish undertone, it makes the island look really flat.
For consistency, we decided to also spray the doors like we did with the Benjamin Moore paint. Jeremy said that it did not spray the same either. He agreed that the paint was a great consistency and great coverage. He also said that it seemed to dry faster. For the sake of science though, I think no matter what paint he sprayed second, he would probably prefer because there was such a learning curve with the spray gun.
So two coats on the island and we had full coverage….vs. the three we had to do on the white cabinets. I was pumped. I let it dry a solid week before attaching everything back on….BUT THEN THIS HAPPENED….
Yes. Unthinkable.
I was shocked. And it happened all over the island. I was expecting the paint to take a long time to cure…the Benjamin Moore took at least 60 days for it to be as hard as everyone bragged it would be….but this was totally different. This is not like a soft paint that has gotten marred. This is dried paint that is chipping off in big dried clumps. I literally can take my fingernail and score a line of chipped paint.
So I came to the conclusion that the island is going back to white. I love the two tone…I do…but in this situation and for the amount of money it costs for aklyd paint, I am not ready to mispick the island color again (apparently the wall color is beautiful but doesn’t get along with it’s peers). Since we have most of a gallon left over from our other cabinets, it can live as a white guy for a while. The worst part is that I have to sand it all down again. But this might be just the kick in the pants we need to get Jeremy to help me add a couple narrow shelves on one end and replace the corbels with something less lion-footy.
Okay – so here is the point system for our showdown….
BENJAMIN MOORE PROS
- cheaper ($56 a gallon vs $71 a gallon – I got the Sherwin Williams paint 30% off during a sale, so it ended up $49 but whoa)
- ended up with a harder finish
- factory looking finish (even though it was really hard for us to apply correctly with the sprayer)
SHERWIN WILLIAMS PROS
- great consistency
- great coverage
- faster drying
- easy to spray
Of course, in the end, we had to give the crown to Benji….even if the points don’t show it. The end result is just too important. Chipping is just not something I pay for…and even though it was a headache to apply and the wait time was EXCRUICIATING because I had to make sure Will didn’t ram the cabinets with his bike, it cured up really nicely and our white cabinets look fantastic.
So that’s our little island painting adventure. Of course, I am still looking to use the rest of the can of Sherwin Williams paint…I’m thinking one of the boy’s bathroom vanities. Maybe the results will be different in that space…who knows?! One experiment doesn’t prove anything. Afterall, I didn’t have environmental constants so I’m gonna have to do the next one double blind. Oh look, my nerd is showing.
Barbara Walters signing off.
p.s. There are a number of reasons that paint can chip and peel – usually it’s due to the surface not being prepped and primed sufficiently. For complete info on how we prepared our cabinets for paint, click here. Here is how we painted our white cabinets.
Update : Looking for more info on something you see in our house? We have a Shop the Bower House page with paint colors and links to accessories, furniture and decor!
chips=no good 🙁
we used the sherwin williams for our cabinets and i’m overall happy with it..but I have noticed a few marks and VERY small chips around the knobs (yah know..places where you touch the cabinets a lot.) I also thought the finish would be a bit different (we used satin) but overall I’m happy…and I had a coupon too so I’m glad I didn’t spend $71 on paint either!!! Cray cray!!!
http://drivethirtythree.blogspot.com/2012/10/get-ready-to-rumble.html
Not gonna lie I really was envisioning the paint cans in little wrestling onseies and you as the ring announcer… can I get a “Lettttssss get reaaaddyyy tooo ruuummmbllle!!!!” ?!
This is totally normal, right?
Boo Sherwin and his chippy finish! I don’t blame you just using what you have left of the white, that paint is SO expensive!
Shannon
I used the BM Impervo (the oil based recommended for cabinets) and loved it on my cabinets. We only lived with those cabs for about 8 months before gutting the kitchen, but in 8 months with a toddler they held up really well. Those same cabs are now in my basement for storage and I’d have to say they still look good, but the light is poor down there and they don’t get everyday use, so take it all with a grain of salt.
Prior to that I used the SW paint on an armoire and had exactly the same result you had with in a month or two!
The oil based takes forever to cure and you have a steep learning curve with making look nice, but I’d use it again over SW any day.
I just painted a desk white with the Sherwin Williams stuff and had the same problem! I used the same primer as you and let it cure for two weeks. After the second day the paint was chipping off in big chunks! Definitely annoying considering how expensive the paint was and how much time I had invested into it! I don’t have access to the BM Advance, or I would definitely use it next time.
Wow! Thank you so much for the comparison. I love SW so I was really pumped until the end of the post. Did the SW guys elaborate on how the surface should be prepped? Did BM (no not that one!) provide any guidance for prep? Kind of disappointed with my old standby.
I’ve painted my kitchen island 4 times in the past 6 months, without sanding between. It works fine. I used BM Advance twice, some Walmart paint once (never again) and a regular Glidden interior paint. I’m not sure I’d spring for Advance again. I’ve used it a lot and I’m not sure it’s worth the premium.
I’ve never tried Benjamin Moore paint, but I have some comments on Sherwin Williams. We like to use SW and have had really good results with their Harmony line (no VOC). It covers really well. We once tried a small can of the Duration and it didn’t cover at all – not sure if it was my own bad judgement of the space or what.
Also – tip for buying Sherwin Williams: go when they have 40% off days (usually at store anniversary time). For instance, last fall we bought 2 gallons untinted at sale price since we want to paint our master bedroom and just didn’t have the time or the exact color in mind yet. Then you can bring in your can (with receipt) and ask them to tint it, and away you go.
I am loving your kitchen – I lust after those hex tiles so much. Someday 🙂
Would you ever consider using the wall paint color on the island? It would be more subtle than that darker gray that you have, but you know it would match your walls and it would still be two tone.
Either way – so so pretty!
That’s interesting about the BM white paint. I have heard that was the best too and had thought about using it. I might reconsider now, but not sure what I would use. I guess I need to do some more research. Have you considered black for the island?
What a bummer about the chipping. For me that takes Sherwin completely out of the running.
I must say that I’ve been a Sherwin girl for over 30 years and I’ve never had an issue with chipping and in this most recent house which is about 3800 sq. ft., I’ve painted over 30 doors and all the trim and not had a problem with chipping. And as for color-matching, my guys are the best because I’ve color matched to many Martha and Ben colors. They even know me by name and the projects that I’ve done:)
The kitchen is beautiful!
I bought a quart of ProClassic to paint some nightstands, and while mine hasn’t chipped, I fully believe it’s because I put three coats of Acrylaq on top of it. I too am a bigger fan of Ben Moore, but I use SW frequently because of the nifty coupons and the fact that my Ben Moore dealer isn’t open on the weekend or after six.
Thanks for the post. I want to paint my cabinets but don’t have the patience. Make your finished kitchen will motivate me!
Awesome comparison! I am totally sold on BM Advance – but I agree with you on the curing time…it’s PAINFUL. In the end it’s worth it though. We painted our cabinets (rolled on, not sprayed) about 8 months ago and we have hardly any chips. There are a few areas where the door rubs on the frame that it’s chipped off, but not a single chip on the front of the doors or the base boxes. My daughter is really into colouring on walls right now (UGH), so the cabinets get wiped down with a magic eraser almost daily and they still look brand new.
That totally sucks about the chipping – super painful to sand and do it all again, but I do think I’ll look nice white 🙂
You might want to ask at Sherwin Williams, too – I used their floor paint, and was told not to prime it, it’s not meant to be and would chip. So you might want to ask about that specific type, maybe it’s a no-go on primer, too? Just sand and paint?
I’m so surprised to hear that the Pro Classic chipped. We also used it to paint our cabinets…only the upper cabinets, and it worked out great for us. It’s been about 4 months and I haven’t seen any chips yet (fingers crossed). This was my first time using the Pro Classic paint and I’m a little worried now. How soon after painting your island did it start to chip?
Whaaaat??? That is crazy! I’ve used ProClassic on all the trim all over my entire house and never had a chip except for the spots where people (ahem) run into it with corners of furniture they’re carelessly dragging around the house without help. I don’t know who does that in my house. I wonder what the heck went wrong with your cabinets?
Anyway, a friend of mine here is the regional manager for SW and he’s had me take back a couple of cans of paint that weren’t what I wanted (one was a primer that let knots bleed through, the other was mis-tinted). Both times I got full refunds and no crap from the guys in the store.
Bummer…I’ve never had a problem with Sherwin Williams. It’s CRAZZZZZY! I would vote for a red island to match your chairs the next time you get around to it. But white is good too, especially if you get rid of those crazy corbels ;0!!!
This post made me feel a little better since I’ve used both as well. I used the SW ProClassic on ALL the trim and doors in our house and the BM Advance on our kitchen cabinets. The SWPC chips like crazy!!! One glance with the vacuum cleaner to a baseboard and you’ve got to bust out the touch-up paint. So far (been curing about 2 months) the BMA paint holds up much, much better. I’ve had to touch up 2 places where someone hit the cabinet with something metal (that someone was me and the metal was a power tool). If I had it to do over again I’d use only the BMA paint for the whole house.
Right away so if you haven’t seen chipping then you are probably good to go!
xo kb
Thanks for the comparison. It’s good to have this info for future projects. And your cabinets look great.
I’ve heard that primer loses its grippiness over time, so I wonder if that had a factor in causing the island paint to chip. How long was it from the time you primed the island to when you painted it?
I work in construction (14+ years) and we use SM & SW…. but that’s only for walls & ceilings. When I painted my front exterior door burgundy, I went with BM’s Classic Burgundy alkyd. The ended that line so I had SW alkyd color matched to do my back door. Both are the same fiberglass doors & prepped, painted , cured the same way (except a year apart). My front door is peeling. My back door is still holding up strong even with 3 dogs that scratch at it daily.
Did you know that the paint at WalMart is manufactured at the same plant as SW? Probably not the same formula, but the same place. I didn’t know that until I went to buy a gallon of builder’s grade white to do some basement painting & saw that the address on the back of the can was the same as SW’s.
* we use both BM & SW
That is really disappointing. I used SW adhesion primer and Proclassic paint (color-matched) without any problems. I brushed and rolled on mine, and they have held up really well for a couple of years. The only place it has rubbed is the faux drawer fronts in front of the sink where our clothes rub against it while we do things at the sink. But it’s not chipped, so I was thinking about just going back over it with the roller at some point. Sorry it didn’t work out for you!
Soooo glad you posted this. We are moving in 38 days (yes – I totally do have a countdown) and one of the things we want to do is paint the cabinets. I do believe I know which paint I will be going with!
Take this with a grain of salt, because I know nothing about painting 🙂 but I seem to remember that when we had our cabinets painted, there was a big debate whether we should use oil-based or latex-based paint. Depending on what was underneath, if you used the wrong kind, it could cause peeling. Not sure if this could be the case for you?
I don’t want to go off on a negative tangent here BUT I need to say something about Sherwin Williams… their logo really bugs me. “Cover the Earth” is their slogan with paint covering the earth – oceans and all. I pick Benjamin instead of Sherwin Williams every time simply because SW’s logo is so jarring. I love painting something just as much as the next guy, but I like to keep my oceans/lakes/skies clean from paint covering. Am I crazy to get all that from a logo? Maybe. By the way, I kinda sorta love your corbels 😉
I know you’ve decided to just go back to white and finish this whole project, but I wanted to suggest you check out CabinetCoat by Insl-x, which I think is now owned by Benjamin Moore… so you can get it most places they have BM.
We used CabinetCoat on our kitchen cabinets and it worked really well! The paint is self-leveling and creates a really hard finish. It’s designed for furniture and cabinets so that makes it way better than most typical paints. I love it and it’s held up really well in our kitchen for the last 2 years! Hope that helps!
http://newlywedmcgees.blogspot.com/2011/06/kitchen-reveal.html
I wish you would do a high gloss black instead of giving up the ghost on the island. I think that would really give it the pop you’re looking for!
I absolutely LOVE your kitchen! I want to update my kitchen so badly! We have horrid black textured wood panelling on the walls that I really just need to either paint or take down (although I am a little afraid of what I might find underneath). I would live to redo my cabinets too (there is so little space between the upper cabinets and lower cabinets that I can’t put any appliances on the counter) but that is still a ways off money wise. I wouldn’t mind painting the cabinets to help change things up. Do you have to spray cabinets, or is that just the easiest/quickest way to go about it? I don’t know anyone with a paint sprayer and I really don’t think I can justify the cost of purchasing one. Have you ever tried just brushing/rolling paint on? If you have, how did it turn out?
Thanks Katie for this post! I have to admit, when you first posted about your use of BM Advance, I got gun shy about painting my kitchen cabinets. I bought a gallon of white BM Advance the day before I read your post and I got scared reading about your experience! Not to blame you for my laziness/procrastination but I had since not touched my cabinets and they are still yet to be painted. I think I will give it a go again. I don’t plan to spray them so hopefully mine will cure a little bit faster. Thanks again and wish me luck!
I’m missing something…what’s wrong with the corbels? I think they look nice. Are they too traditional for what you have in mind?? To bad about the SW. I’ve used their products over the years too, and always thought they made superior paint. Maybe you should show them what happened? You have proof you prepped them correctly, and we’ll all be your witnesses! : D
Interesting post!! I’m totally a newb at at the different paints and brands, so I think I’ll just have to try out all the various kinds until I find the brand that is “the one.”
Ok, question….I’m about to paint all of my interior doors black and I’m painting all my kitchen cabinets. I was planning on getting a sprayer because that seemed like it would be easier. But it seems like you (Jeremy?) didn’t like the sprayer so much. If you had to do it again would you just use a brush and a foam roller?
We don’t have BM Advanced paint in Canada, but we do have a very similar BM cabinet paint. We painted our bathroom cabinets with it, and love it for the most part, but whenever something metal touches it, it leave a light grey mark. Have you had this problem at all?
I’m hesitant to do our kitchen cabinets if this is going to happen…
I think these are the very reasons I will stick with true alkyd (not water-borne alkyds) in the future. I hate that they yellow over time, but the workability and durability of old-fashioned alkyd is far superior to these “new generation” water-borne alkyds.
I think the best paint out there is Benjamin Moore. Great econ friendly paint at reasonable prices. Local painting contractor shouldnt be hard to find. Each company has there own preferences and push that upon the customer. Novel Remodeling’s choice in paint is Benjamin Moore because it gives our customers a peace of mind.
I used the exact Sherwin Williams for my trim work in the kitchen and my bathroom. I double checked with the SW employee about moisture, etc., and he assured me this would be the best product. I also followed all of his pre-painting prep work to the letter, and was still disappointed in the SW paint. It chipped, peeled, cracked, and overall just didn’t stand up very well, requiring lots of touch ups weeks and months down the road. I realize I used the paint in difficult areas, but I was really unhappy with the results and likely won’t use SW trim paint again.
Midwesterner here, anybody have experience with Diamond Vogel? Very popular in these parts…
Such a bummer about the island chipping! I’ve never liked the quality of Sherwin Williams paint. We helped some friends paint their house it with (they were long time Sherwin Williams fans), but even they ended up going with Valspar after the terrible coverage/quality.
I really like the idea of a gray island. Which photo is the most true to life? I like the color in the 3rd photo from the bottom, but the wall color doesn’t really show there.
I laughed out loud at “something less lion-footy”.
We painted our stairs (treads included) with Sherwin Williams Pro line as no one in town sells the Advance line by Benjamin Moore. We used an actual oil based paint though, as we didn’t want to mess around with anything else and have to paint again. Stinks when something like that happens (and it’s always bound to at some point when you’re working on a house!). Hope the white holds up better! You can check out our stairs if ya want-it was one of those never ending projects! http://www.swooninteriors.com/2012/05/january.html
Not sure how far you are from Roswell, GA, but there is a Benjamin Moore retailer (Northside Decorating) we used with a much better price on the Advance. We painted our cabinets this December and got a gallon on the Ben Moore advance there for under $50 a gallon – maybe $46?
Anyway, they have the BEST prices on Benjamin Moore Advance that I’ve found (at least in the Roswell/Sandy Springs area). We’ll be checking them out for the regular Ben Moore paint soon.
This is so timely! We’re painting our kitchen cabinets over my spring break, and I’ve been researching what brand is the best. Now I know to skip ol’ Sherwin.
I wonder what the difference is … could it be material being painted, like was one laminate cabinet and the other soldi wood, or the humidity level in the home, how it was applied? Curious that people are getting mix results.
FYI- If you want to use a flat paint in your bath area, BM aura paint is great. It is flat but you can wash it and it covers any imperfections. We had many as the walls were painted, glued, wallpaper. They look fantastic.
I wonder too! I literally thought I would be the only one that experienced the chipping and I would get railed…but it seems really unpredictable.
xo – kb
Thanks Ellen. If I ever need a big stash, I’ll definitely check them out.
xo – kb
The one that is chipping is probably the most true to color.
xo – kb
Man, how disappointing:( I’m sure you felt like things were really coming together…nothing like set backs and have to do a job over! But maybe since the color wasn’t what you loved, it was a good sign?? I hope it comes out better for you next time….one question, what happened to that funky drawer on the right side of the island?? I never noticed that it was tilted before! Lol
Yeah…I wonder if I should have gone with the oil based. I probably could have gotten away with a quart.
xo – kb
BUMMER.
xo – kb
We think we jarred the bracket one time taking it out…just gotta reattach the rail.
xo – kb
No…not yet. I’ll have to go do an experiment now though 🙂
xo – kb
NO WAY. We love the sprayer. Jeremy just likes certain paint in the sprayer (he actually prefers Olympic or Valspar…maybe because they are thin?)
xo – kb
Its not that there is anything wrong…they just are a little too ornate for my preference in this space. I think I’ll probably use them in a different room!
xo – kb
Good tip! thanks!
xo – kb
Well there was no paint before and I followed the instructions…I think its just bad luck!
xo – kb
Its been months…so I wonder if that was it!
xo – kb
Yeah I was shocked. I’ll definitely ask more questions next time!
xo – kb
I would definitely consider it…I just don’t want to buy the extra paint. erggh.
xo – kb
Ooooh good tip!
xo – kb
Both recommend their own primer…I used a waterbased white primer…so I don’t know.
xo – kb
We did because it was a factory finish. And we already had the sprayer. I’ve heard with the BM Advance, it is self leveling and it goes on great with a brush/roller. The Petersiks did their cabinets with a brush and roller and love theirs. I haven’t seen it yet so I can’t vouch for the finish.
xo – kb
Yes! Go girl! I think it is definitely a cure-time thing…because now we love them.
xo – kb
NOOOOO – I would die if that happened! So not cool to chip off like that. It seems like y’all did a stellar job prepping the cabinets, so that is a hard core bummer. Thanks for the pro-paint run down, as well. We tried Benjamin Moore for the first time a few months back, and overall, we have been very pleased.
We used SW Emerald paint for our cabinets 9 months ago and I think they turned out and have held up beautifully. It’s the most expensive paint SW sells (we hit the sale) but its self-leveling and no-VOC, which was important to me. My only complaint would be that we didn’t get great coverage in the white shade we used on the uppers. I think I insisted on 5 thin coats. We had them color match a Farrow and Ball gray for the lowers and the color and coverage was great. No chipping or peeling problems. Wiping down messes is a cinch. I would definitely recommend.
Bummer about the extra work! But the kitchen looks great regardless.
I love the gray you painted the kitchen. I’m planning on using it in our future nursery. The room has a chair rail and I was planning on using your gray on top and Martha Stewart’s -Gabardine on the bottom half. (It’s a blue-y, green-y, slate color) I’m hoping the gray “gets along” with the blue in my room. 😉
I am a DIY novice – in that I only read blogs and imagine the projects I would do if I lived in my forever home and had time and money to actually complete those imagined projects – but what do you mean that it takes 60 days for the cabinets to cure? Does that mean you waited 60 days to rehang them?
Yikes! My jaw is literally hanging open after seeing that chipped island!! That SUCKS.
My whole house is Benjamin Moore (including Advance on my kitchen cabinets) and it’s all held up really well. The only exception is my bathroom which has a different brand because it was a sponsor who paid for the bathroom remodel. Needless to say, it is horrible. It chipped off the back of the door. A Command strip peeled the paint right off. And there are little nicks all over the room.
There is a reason why professional painters all use Benjamin Moore!
I’m so shocked that you had trouble with the SW paint. I LOVE the SW Pro Classic paint. I bought a “mess up” can for $5 of a white color, and I used it to paint my island. I have had no problems whatsoever with chipping, scratches, etc… and I painted the island like 2 years ago. I think I used Kilz primer underneath because that is what I had. That is so strange! I have SW paint (Duration!) in my entire house, and I absolutely adore it and wouldn’t use anything else. I’m super sad you didn’t have the same wonderful experiences I’ve had. 🙁
Great write up! I know you are totally over trying new paints at this point but I have used Insl-x Acrylic Cabinet Coat for 2 sets of built-ins in my house and I am pretty happy – http://www.insl-x.com/viewProd.asp?prodID=180
We used CabinetCoat too. Goes on like butter and dries quickly. No priming needed.
As always, thanks for keeping it real Katie!
Ooh- Such helpful info to know! Thanks for sharing your experience. Your kitchen is looking stunning, by the way!
~Abby =)
What the heck!!! Take the paint back and get a new can, new kind, and diffrent color. If you don’t want to use the store brand…GET YOUR MONEY BACK!!! I am totally sure the store will back you on this. I bet they have a guarantee! Do it do it do it!!
Hi – I live in BC and purchased BM Advance paint last summer……it’s available! I used it to redo a large L-shape desk and wood bed frame. I used a latex Zinsser primer underneath and sprayed the BM Advance paint and it turned out great!
Curing means that it hardens up or becomes fully ‘done’. It’s like when you paint your finger nails…they need a long dry time so that you don’t scuff the finish.
xo – kb
Holy cow . . . Chipping is SO not ok. Yikes. Thanks for sharing!!
I was going to say the same thing. Most primers are only good for a few days before they lose their grip. I wonder if that was part of it. It’s still a bummer (though I’m not crazy about the color either…).
Ok, that’s what I thought. It’s such a pretty color, but you’re right about it not being quite right. Maybe something like Farrow & Ball Down Pipe or Ben Moore Soot in the future? I totally get using what you have (the extra white) for now though, we’re sort of on a spending freeze.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Good to know that there are options. I agree that you should take the can back for credit to try again. I say this because I used ProClassic on my cabinets and love the drying time and end result. I did have just one random spot (albeit on the corner of the highly used door to the garbage) that pealed (even the primer came off). So I resanded, re-primed (used Zinsser Smart Prime each time), then re-painted and all is good now. Very random but chemicals and science can be like that, I guess.
I recently painted my dingy white cabinets black. LOVE IT! The paint I used was Dutch Boy Kitchen and Cabinet paint in high gloss. The guy at the paint shop said high gloss will give a harder finish. So far it is holding up really well. I of course did not have your patience and did not wait a week to reattach the hardware or start using my doors and drawers again. I was doing this project while my husband was gone for the weekend so had to have everything put back by the time he got home on Sunday afternoon. 😉 I have just a couple spots that the paint chipped, due to the rush job of putting everything back and then of course needing something from that location right away. I do love your new kitchen though and good luck with repainting the island. That sanding is the worst part of any project. If only you could take it outside then you could use a power sander.
so can you hang them while they’re curing? Is there a way to speed up the process? (like the light-box thingy at the nail place??)
Katie, can you offer some advice on using oil-based paint in the house with a toddler? We have a small house, under 1000 square feet, and the previous owners had painted the trim tan with something oil-based. I got some Kilz water-based primer because it said it went over anything, but we’ve had a ton of peeling. I want to do the job over with oil-based paint, but I’m worried that having those paint fumes in our small house would make my kiddo sick.
Have you ever researched Insl X Cabinet Coat? It’s by far the best cabinet paint we’ve ever used. It’s similar to Advance (which we tried based on Sherry’s recommendation a long time ago), but it my experience goes on a whole lot easer. (We’ve sprayed it, brushed it, AND rolled it.) It takes about 2 weeks to cure, and after that gives you a rock hard finish. Love that stuff and now wouldn’t use anything else.
BTW, I’d go turquoise or yellow on the island. Why the heck not? With 2 little boys you will probably end up painting it every 5 years anyway from wear. 🙂
Hahahaha! Love the “Gladiator Intro”! I already have a great imagination and had given a mighty echo to your “voice.” 😀
As for the cabinets, double blind studies are so important, but when it’s time to paint my kitchen cabinets, I’m keeping this in mind and probably going to err on the side of caution with the Benjamin Moore.
Thanks for this awesome comparison, but now I’m really nervous! We purchased 2 gallons of the ProClassic to re-do our kitchen cabinets in a white but after reading your post, I’m nervous we made the wrong choice. I asked my friend that’s been refinishing cabinets for years and that’s what she suggested along with TSP & Zinsser for prep.
Now, we’ve just had another friend tell us that they just re-did their cabinets using the Annie Sloan Chalk Paint and that it turned out amazing and was the easiest paint they’ve ever worked with. I know it’s more expensive than even the SW Proclassic at $38 a quart, but they were able to do their entire kitchen and island with only 3 quarts using their sprayer! Now we’re really stuck trying to decide if we should stick to the SW that we already purchased or go the chalk paint route.
Do you have any experience or stories with chalk paint?!?
Thanks!
It could have been due to the primer over-curing. I had the same issue with a shelf I’d primed and left a couple of months before painting. If you let the primer fully cure it doesn’t bond to the new coat, so you should either re-prime or sand before painting, then the fresh primer bonds to the paint properly.
Could also be a coat of grease from being in the kitchen.
I painted my cabinets with SW Pro Enamel Oil based paint. Well, my painters did it. They suggested the paint because they are convinced it’s rock hard when it dried. I wanted a BM color and was really irritate with them. If they hadn’t done such a good job on my exterior of my house I wouldn’t have used them. They were so right! It’s been 1 1/2 years and this paint is still perfect! Get the oil based and you won’t be disappointed!
The chipping…I would have had a heart attack when that started happening! Thanks for sharing your experience with the paints. Your kitchen looks awesome!
I never heard of InslX cabinet coat. Who makes it and where can you buy it?
Definitely give the Insl-x Cabinet Coat a try. I used it in my kitchen. Rolled the frames, sprayed the doors, two coats on the inside of doors, three coats on the outside. It acts as it’s own primer and I recommend following the instructions in their pamphlet (also available online). It’s been about a year and not one chip or scratch. It cured in only a few days. Also the paint is self-leveling so it dries to a really smooth satin finish no matter how it’s applied. I buy it online from Home Depot because I like the standard white, but you can get it from Benjamin Moore and have it tinted. The price it better from Home Depot and it arrives in about 2 days. I used to work as a painter/faux finisher and have tried tons of different formulas, this one is beyond comparison.
Yeah…I’m thinking it might be the over-curing…which is something I had never thought of. Spot on Anon.
xo – kb
I don’t. But I do know that chalk paint can adhere to pretty much anything but it does need waxing or poly over it otherwise it feels well, chalky. Hope this helps a little!
xo – kb
I wish I knew. As far as I can tell, it’s just time and the right temp and humidity for it to cure.
xo – kb
I’ve never painted with oil based with the kiddos so I don’t know from experience but I’ve heard that just getting out for a couple days is helpful (maybe you could stay with friends or family?) and to put bowls of vinegar around and light candles (to burn off VOCs) and open doors and windows with box fans could be the best way to get rid of the fumes 🙂
xo – kb
If you haven’t already done something on the island, consider doing it in the same color as the walls, but at 125% or more strength. At least the undertones will be the same. The island should end up looking darker even at the same strength. I recently used the Advance to paint some interior doors. My sprayer came with a viscosity tester to determine how much to dilute the paint for the best spraying. I had to dilute it MUCH more than they estimated would be needed but it ended up spraying very well. The finish is very nice. I have also used the pro classic on several occasions, but it was oil based. It was a perfectly hard finish – and never chipped even though it was on bedroom dressers that were used frequently and also painted over a high-gloss oil based paint. I’ve never used the reformulated Pro Classic (I believe most paints have been reformulated to comply with new laws). Nice write up – thanks!
We plan on painting our cabinets this spring and I’ve been bookmarking all your kitchen makeover pages so we have some kind of idea of what we are doing. Our kitchen is really small though so we will not be using a sprayer. Plus my husband has not one chromosome of handy man in him. I think I will be doing most of he work.
Can you retile your bathroom next? We need to tackle that sometime soon too! LOL!
haha…Jeremy wishes! I definitely think we are gonna be doing our laundry room floor soon…when we can squeeze it in 🙂 Are you planning on doing the floor or shower or what?
xo – kb
ahh, I thought you might have leftover already 🙂 Well I am excited to see how it turns out with your shelve and details additions!
How long did you keep your kids out of the house for when you did this project?
I’m glad to spread the word, because I had no idea either.
yeaaaaah…. i have had clients complain about advance paint because of the ultra slow drying time, so i quit using it. i still stand by aura line from ben moore! i think it cures faster (its not an alkyd).. just my opinion! and it goes on way faster, and is not thin and runny like advance. i dont know. advance paint got on my nerves!
Is the Aura hard as a rock? I know you are the pro Kristen so I totally would love to know from you!
xo – kb
When I painted the island, they stayed with grandparents who were visiting in another room…so they didn’t leave the house.
xo – kb
I haven’t used either of these paints in a sprayer but I have to say the SW’s paint is my absolute favorite for painting furniture by hand. I use a foam roller and brush and get such a great, hard finish with this paint. It looks clean and smooth and doesn’t ever, ever chip (even without a top coat in my kids room).
I painted my daughters laminate top dresser with the ProClassic three years ago- two coats, no top coat, (primed with water based zinzer and let it cure for a week) and it looks absolutely perfect to this day. And that is with books and baskets, diaper changes, and lots of things happening on top of it! I am excited to try the BM some day but I have to say the SW’s is really worth the cost to me.
Have you heard of PPG’s Break-Through paint – they recently purchased this technology, and it’s really remarkable. It’s expensive, but it’s been used for years commercially – it dries for recoating in 2omins, and cures rock hard. So you can paint a window and then close it up, and it won’t stick. You can fill your bookshelves an hour after you paint – it’s really incredible. It’s water-based, has some smell to it, but not awful, and is expensive, but in my mind, completely worth it.
We’ve been painting woodwork in our house for thirteen years now, but I’m completely sold on this. I wrote about it here: http://www.thirdstory-ies.blogspot.com/2013/02/library-progress.html
Sorry, I don’t understand. You said you didn’t have them in the house one comment upthread, but you did, just with box fans and things?
That was in reference to oil based paint. This island painting project was alkyd paint which is water based. Sorry that this is confusing…I must be typing too little info to be clear. The last time I used oil based paint (which has crazy strong fumes) I didn’t have kids…so I have never dealt with the evacuation and fume-with-kiddo-problem….does that make sense?
xo kb
Just curious, because you made the comment that Jeremy had a learning curve when it came to using the pray gun on the cabinet doors, is this a different spray gun than you used in your May 2012 post about spraying your office? We are in the market for a spray gun and wondered if you had a recommendation, although we don’t want one that hooks up to an air compressor.
Nope – it’s the same one! It had a learning curve because neither of us had used one. We read the instructions like ten times 🙂 And we do recommend it…because it does quick work and is really easy once you get the hang of it.
xo – kb
Just a note that Sherwin Williams color matching BLOWS! We’ve renovated our house with all Benjamin Moore, with some Behr, Pratt & Lambert, Do it Best, etc paint thrown in. Just renovated my mom’s place with Sherwin Williams for the exterior paint since it got such great reviews.
#1 None of the dealers had enough stock for me to buy enough paint for one place. You guys sell paint. That’s all you sell. Why do not have enough in stock to paint a house and garage? #2 The paint colors are all a bit “off” vs Benjamin Moore. The undertones are completely different and it seems like many of the greys and taupes had too much of a “red” undertone. #3 They can’t match standard colors even within one order, at one store, with the same product to save their lives. I had to return multiple times since the computer got the colors completely off between the multiple 5 gallon pails I bought. Visibly off, where one was a dark charcoal and the other was the actual color I chose. I have never had this issue with Benjamin Moore in over 4 years, so super disappointed!
They also have terrible customer service at every location (I visited at least 5 in a month to get all the materials I needed) – it took FOREVER to get even one quart or gallon mixed. Each visit took no less than 45-1 hour for even the simplest purchase (it took almost 1 hr to get 20 quarts of standard, no mixing needed white cans of oil paint). We used the oil on the cabinets, so I really really hope all my frustration was worth it and that all of the paint looks great for a long time!
It’s good to hear that experience…I had excellent customer service but I hear ya…every store must be different. And I am sure that Sherwin is sorry that you have to go through that each time…what a pain!
xo – kb
I have to laugh, because my local BM and SW stores are the complete opposite. With Ben failing miserably and Sherwin being completely awesome. And as far as color matching goes, it’s always going to be a crap shoot of who you get to match your color. Some are better than others. I have a favorite guy at my Sherwin Williams store for matching across brands if necessary, but I typically try to avoid having colors matched in general. Its just best to buy the paint from the brand whose color you selected. After all, there is a reason brands don’t all have the same colors….
I believe that is true. I have had people do some crazy color matching before…it’s always best to go with someone that has an original formula 🙂
xo – kb
Try priming with Zinsser BIN primer. It is shellac based and shellac is a universal binder so it works great between coats of oil and water paints. The downside is that it is thin and it stinks. It uses alcohol as a solvent so it dries fast. Just make sure you have good ventilation. You can then top coat with water based paint. BIN is also the ultimate odor blocker.
I just tried the Benjamin Moore Advance paint and will never use it again. It dries at glacial speed, is needing a ton of coats to cover even with primer, and runs terribly. And it is dinging really quickly, though to be fair, it is not cured yet. I should have stuck with my “big box store latex” paints 🙁
It definitely would run with thick coats. It’s no joke. Good news is, with our experience we found it does cure SUPER hard.
xo – kb
I have 1800 sf painted in sherwin whilliams that after only 2 months started to peel.Horrible.You barely touch it and it comes off in big clumps.We moved in a month after it was painted.The first that started to peel was the kitchen just a few days after being painted.The painter had to scrub everything off,sand the walls again,prime and paint.Same thing happened again about a week after it was painted second time.We thought it was finally done and moved in.Well,now the whole house is peeling.We spent 800$ in paint.We can’t afford to repaint due to too much work and time involved plus we have 2 small children.Never again sherwin whilliams.Will go back to behr or benjamin moore(we had these 2 in previous houses and were more than great,easy to wash,never chipped or peeled even though the walls were hit daily by tons of toys,books,shoes,feet etc)
You might want to tell your local Sherwin Williams folks about this issue…they may be able to help you! It never hurts to ask!
xo – kb
Nice post! We used Benjamin Moore to paint kitchen cabinets in our last home remodel. We were on a tight budget, so at first I was hesitant because compared to other paints, I found BM to be a little pricey. But on the walls, it had been soooo much better than Behr Premium Plus. So in the kitchen (by hand, no sprayer) I went with BM. I will add that we used primer which I did sand and do 2 coats of. In the end, after paint, both the new cabinets & the 1955 built ins looked awesome. Gorgeous color. Gorgeous coverage. Washes well. Still looks great. Once when I couldn’t get BM, Clark+Kensington has done well for me. But overall, I will never stray from BMoore brand again.
I’ve been a Benjamin Moore girl for years. Love Aura and Aqua Velvet but Will never use advance again. Took 3 coats on woodwork and still looks like it needs another coat. Store said. It is supposed to have an oil base look but not oil base. Next I tried Breakthrough by Pittsburg. Dry to touch in 30 min. Must work fast and not go back over it. Strong as steel. Made for industrial use but people are using it in homes now. I did a bathroom floor and all my interior doors. I love it!!! Will only use Ben Moore for walls though.
I’ve never heard of Breakthrough before. Thanks for the info!
xo – kb
I used Advance on oak kitchen cabinets. It is hard and cleans well 18 months later. It is a so…long process. I just washed the staircase railing that I painted simply white with ProClassic acrylic latex, no alkyd. It washed-up like a charm. No peeling!
Unfortunately, I have only recently come across this blog in my obsessive research of all things paint. From what I’ve read, I can say two things. 1.) Advance does take a long time to cure on previously sealed/ non-porous surfaces. It really does, but the beauty of that material is that it only gets harder over time… and does not stop doing so. 2.) I’m not a big fan of pro-classic ever since sher-will switched to the low voc formula. I’ve had some issues with it in the past myself. As far as the island peeling, I wonder what primer was used, and how long it cured before topcoat. Many primers must be sanded prior to topcoat if they are allowed to cure for more than a few days. Otherwise they get too hard and create bonding problems with the topcoat. I hope this info was helpful.
Yup…I think you hit the nail on the head. I did see how the Advance cured much harder over the course of time and I do highly recommend it now that I have the finished product. I think if someone had similar cabinets to mine and had small kids like mine, it is a beast of a wait and really hard to keep them from mucking them up. And yes…our primer did have over the recommended 24 hours of dry time before coating and like some of the comments above, I guess the ‘glue’ or the sticky part of the primer was too cured for the paint to adhere properly.
xo – kb
We did our lower cabinets with Sherman Williams ProClassic a year ago, painted a shade of white. We have two big Dobermans and balls and dogs get bounced against the cabinets. Also feet, etc. No chips. Still easy to wipe clean (satin finish). I cleaned, sanded, tsp, before priming with two coats of Zinsser Bin (former homeowner was a smoker and the cigarette stain leaked through with just one coat of BIN). Anyway, I was very happy with the SW ProClassic, did three thin coats, but can see why you were not.
I’m thinking about trying the BM for some interior doors… just for fun. I will say I really like that I can recoat the SW in the same day. I’m doing window trim with it currently.
I used ProClassic on an antique piece of furniture that sits in my kitchen as my “coffee station”. It’s held up great and it’s been at least a couple years. (It is a glossy finish, which is great because it’s Creamy White and being a coffee station, we need to wipe it down occasionally.) We applied with a roller and brush and it looks great! We’ll be painting our kitchen cabinets in the next month or two and Sherwin Williams is in town, so that’s what we’ll be using again, but with a sprayer. Always been happy with SW!
I am a long time contractor that paints with every company, just wanted to say that this is very well written and unbiased (unlike alot of critics). ProClassic is what I always use for cabinets and trims (baseboards and doors). Besides being easy to apply after the years it has been one of the few products with no problems in the long term = Quality. Like you supported, Prep work is Key. Sorry about what happened to your island, But ProClassic is the best.
FYI: Sherwin Williams never charges retail price (“$71”), its just a gimmick. Sales always help.
I might have missed something but you say you left the cabinets primed….then later came back and painted and it chipped. All the primers I have ever used stated that the paint should be applied in x number of days. So if you waited a week or a month, used the island, cooked in the kitchen, touched the drawers, mopped the floor, the lack of adhesion can be attributed to improperly preparing the surface no matter how much diligence was used when the project started. Even if you cleaned like the end of time, the only way to get even close to the same conditions the wall cabinets were painted under would be to sand and reprime every surface. Just wanted to bring this point up since the purpose of your website is to provide help and guidance to others so they don’t repeat your disappointing results. And not sticking up for any brand or another, it wouldn’t be fair to compare the two paints if they were not applied at the time of intstall and priming. Sorry, but as the daughter of a scientist, experiments need to have all factors the same.
Obviously this “experiment” had a lot of flaws….but there was also wait time between the primer and paint on the white cabinets too. It could be due to a number of environmental elements…temperature, moisture, dirt, time of year…it could have been the method or a faulty batch of paint…the reasons are endless.
xo kb
I am wondering how the paint is holding up on the cabinets? Mine are exactly the same color/style yours were to begin with, and it is time for a change. I see you liked the BM best, which seems to be the general agreement out there, but I can’t find a follow up review as to how it wears with a couple years of use and abuse. Thanks!
Our trash can cabinet is definitely showing some wear…but it is used the most, dirty the most and wiped the most so that is probably why. On the flat parts it is fine…but where the cabinet door detail is, it is showing some wear. The other thing is that one of our faux drawer fronts fell off because the boys climb on these…so that stinks but isn’t really a fault of the paint. I am interested how it will look after I “fix” it. And there is some slight yellowing (Jeremy can’t see it but I do) around the exposed parts that are closest to the stove…so it might be the heat or the grease (although they are clean) staining it. Other than that, they still look new!
xo – kb
Advance is a great product, if you put it on too thick, it will possibly crack. So far on the two jobs we used it on, it has performed very well!
This is a very good piece of info. I’ve been a DIYer all my life and never heard you could “over cure” primer. Had terrible luck with BM Advance on a vintage piece of furniture. I thought I was doing the right thing by priming twice over the dark wood ( sanding with the super fine purple sand paper between each coat) and waiting over 24 hours between coats. Wound up using 4 coats of Advance to get rid of all the dark streaks showing through! Now the finish has a slight “orange peel” finish. Thought it was the paint, but maybe the primer was too cured (?)
love your pendant lights. From where did you get them? Thanks!
Here is the link about them!
xo – kb
I’m betting Anon is right. I had a similar problem and learned that most primers cure in seven days but work best when painted over within a few hours – ideally within four.
Your kitchen looks beautiful!
Katie- What is the color of the regular walls? It’s a very pretty color. We are trying to pick a gray color for our house now and I found your page when I was researching Sherwin Williams vs. Benjamin Moore paint. We are also getting ready to attempt painting our cabinets. Your kitchen is beautiful! Thanks!
The kitchen walls are Metropolitan by Benjamin Moore. They are a really great grey!
xo – kb
SW ProClassic has given me amazing results. Paint will chip because of technicality issues of the DIYer itself. 80% of painting failiures happen due to preparation issues. I have made mistakes during prep, have tried to skip prep and have paid the consequences. No one is perfect and it’s okay to admit we might of done something wrong than blaming it on the paint.
SW paints are a little more saturated than BenMoores pastel tone colors. Also, depending on the sheen of the paint you will get a slightly different tone than the original flatcard or match. Make sure you take the sheen in consideration whenever you pick the color as it might look brighter as you go higher in sheen.
I like both companies as well as Sloans chalk paint.
On my next project I will try home made chalk paint on furniture and see how it cures 🙂
Just a quick THANK YOU for writing this! 🙂
Homemade chaulk paint is NO BUENO!!! LOL…try Southern Honey Chawk Paint….Better than Sloan. Less Expensive and more color options..
I have done a lot of islands and Kitchen cabs. As a professional painter I can say that any paint has it’s pros and cons, however the true resulting finish is weighted in the prep work. You may have sanded the island drawers but that is useless unless they were degreased.
Finger & hand oil, vaporized cooking grease, spills, cleaning detergents & soaps leave unseen residue on cabinet drawers and doors. These are handled thousands of times unawares. So to insure a lasting paint bond prep work is fundamental to a successful effort. Good paints have the ability to bond chemically but a mechanical bond is also preferred. When you achieve both aspects of the two types of bonding and apply a fully required coat thickness, you will then be able to compare paints. At that point a comparison will be primarily be a subjective preference for ease of application and as well as coverage.
Sanding does not remove grease & oil. SO.. First use a good degreaser, like Krud Kutter. 409 just does not ‘cut’ it in my book. Wet-cloth rinse all areas that were degreased to remove chemical residue. Cotton cloth wipe down while wet for additional removal, blotting and drying. This preps for the chemical bond.
Secondly, sand with 220 grit… light sanding. Then TACK. The sanding dust must be removed using a brush vac and or a Tack-Cloth. This preps for the mneeded mechanical bond. Old varnish finishes or old hard glossy oil finishes require more extensive “gloss removal” . Gloss removers can save a lot of sanding to knock all gloss sheen down/off the existing finishes, however even after that step, a light 220 sanding and dust removal is still the recommended process. Essentially, therefore a super glossy finish needs the additional sanding or a chemical gloss removal before the light 220 grit sanding
and dust removal.
Now you are ready to paint AFTER you stir the paint well!
ADDED NOTE: Amateur painters do more brushing and spreading out the applied paint then actually applying paint resulting in paint film thicknesses that are far below manufacturers recommendations for durability. Paints are formulated to be applied at specific paint film thicknesses. There should be constant application of paint instead of constant brushing to spread the applied paint. Brushing has a two fold purpose; 1) Primary is to apply paint. 2) to spread thinner only as needed to avoid any sagging or drips. The last brush stroke on vertical strokes should be UP. A down stroke promotes a sag when applying full coats with a brush. Additionally a full brushed coat allows the paint film to be heavy enough to “self-level” which a good paint is formulated to do by its surface tension produced as drying begins to occur.
Thank you so much!!!! Been painting kitchens (and decorative painting) for 15 years. Have used both brands and always have found ‘Benji’ (<3) the best on the market. . . (personal opinion only from final finish) . . . but have never seen such a great comparison between the 'two giants'! Your time and detail to consideration of end result and posting such, is so so so appreciated :)))
ty ty ty. I'll use this wonderful blog post for my customers when they ask about SW vs. Ben Moore.
I’m just finishing spraying my cabinets white – total reface from oak.
We used the BM Advance Satin 3.5 gallons and BM Advance Primer 2.5 gallons. The finish paint was $50/gallon and I think the primer may have been $48/gallon. The color we chose was Cloud White and we love it. They have to jimmy rig the Advance Primer to tint it, but it’s possible. I sprayed everything in the garage in an enclosed plastic area. I bought the Graco Magnum LTS15 for $270 at Lowes with a 10% off coupon. Got some experience ahead of time by painting the exterior of the house. Used a Graco RAC X Fine Finish Tip 214.
Finishing our large kitchen in two weeks. First week lowers, then this week uppers. It will be about 100 accumulative hours spent. I paid friends to help me sand on the Saturdays and help brush/roll paint the inside. Our first day spraying was 99F. The max temp for application is 90F with a recommended 77F. I was fanning the AC into the garage as much as possible. One of the boards had a bad cracking effect and eventually had to use stripper and start over on that one. A few of the others had minimal cracking that we got cleared up with sanding and the additional coats. The cracking was noticed mid day and half way through spraying primer. I lowered my sprayer pressure down from the recommended 75% pressure to between 45-55% and intentionally sprayed less and never saw the problem again. I had all the cabinets drying in the garage. Used 2x4s across saw horses, etc. I hot glued golf tees to the boards and set the boards on those. Be mindful not to flip them after the dry to touch time or you’ll get dimples. Wait at a very minimum the recoat time. Make sure to use two finishing coats. The inside required three finishing coats. I cleaned them all with TSP and Klean Strip Sander Deglosser. Also used an orbital sander of 120 grit before primer and then 220 grit after primer. Then a fine sanding block between coats. We also used an Elmers sandable wood filler to fill screw holes. You can see a handful of divets from over sanding. In a perfect world we would have spent more time redoing some things, but who wants to have their kitchen tied up for a minimum of two weeks. Overall we are very pleased with the BM Advance.
Sounds like you did a ton of work! I am glad that the Advance worked out! You’ll have to come back after living with them for a while and let us know how long they took to fully cure and then how they are holding up!
xo – kb
I must attest that Ben moore advance is an OK paint at a premium price. We use it at work because my boss loves it; I’ve personally grown to hate it. It has the most incredible leveling I’ve ever seen, easily brushed, cleans up wonderfully, low voc, and dries in minutes. But all that doesn’t make up for the fact it just won’t cover. HVLP spraying takes at least 3 coats. Also will only cling to newly primed surfaces. As far as the hard as nails finish, it’s never cured to such a finish. It’s just as durable as latex paint and scratches off in the same manner. Personally I’d rather paint with a premium latex paint, in my opinion they perform the same. There’s a lot going for advance but the extra labor to get a good coat and the iffy durability coupled with the false claim of hardness and the price puts it out of my book.
That’s funny that yours hasn’t hardened! Mine took FOREVER…much longer than I had read anywhere and it did become very hard – like I can scratch it with my nail and it’s fine. I do it all the time in fact. I wonder if that all is a result of a primer issue?!
xo – kb
I too researched and found that BM Advance was the best paint for painting cabinets. The self-leveling aspect is beyond my expectations and looks amazing.
My base cabinets came out beautifully, but my doors and drawer fronts I seem to be getting teeny tiny bubbles in the sprayed on paint. I’m using a Wagner Flexio 890 hvlp sprayer.
I still have one more coat to do (making 3 coats total on each side) and keep experimenting with the pressure, as well as spraying taking them off the assembly line 2×4’s on 2 saw horses and spraying each one instead individually on top of a 5 gal. bucket. The amount of teeny tiny bubbles decreases each time.
I did contact Wagner’s tech online chat support, and the guy told me either the sprayer was contaminated because I didn’t clean it properly (said the solvent I was cleaning it with wasn’t thoroughly removed) or the paint was contaminated or the surface wasn’t properly prepared.
Might have agreed with him had I used the sprayer before, but it was a BRAND NEW sprayer … the paint was also a brand new can of paint and my preparation included, TSP wash and rinse, sanding (150 grit and 220 grit with wipe down between and vacuum job using a fine detail brush), Kleen Strip Deglosser and Sander followed by a wipe down with tack cloth.
And if it was one of the 3 reasons the tech guy told me was causing the problems, why did the cabinet bases come out beautifully (they were sprayed at the same time as the doors and drawer fronts)?
I fortunately did not encounter the drip factor that your boyfriend did in spraying vertically, it was just the horizontal spraying that is causing me problems (teeny tiny bubbles).
Wish me luck in this last coat – hopefully this last coat comes out beautifully – LOL – I’m getting tired of sanding.
Okay just a few quick thoughts. The top coat on the island did not stick because the primer has a life to it, what I mean is it needs to be top coated within 30 to 45 days. Primers left uncoated will become very hard and brittle. Which defeats the purpose of them., nothing would stick to old primer well except another coat of primer AFTER being sanded lightly. All paints are really solids in a liquid form for application purposes. So when reducing paint to spray, the adhesion qualities can be greatly compromised. Personally I like shellac or Bin as it’s known by most non professionals for a primer . Can be tinted to final coat with 1/2 tint level of finish paint color It sticks exceptionally with minimal sanding, better than any other primer and it covers stains/bleeds exceptionally. Also it’s leveling qualities are unsurpassed .Down side is the initial odor requires respirator but odor dissipates very quickly! Having said that when the top coat is applied the dry time is longer which allows for better leveling. White pigmented shellac accepts most any other paint exceptionally well. Hope that helps for future projects.
Rich, I agree – that primer was too old. Not only had it aged but in an active kitchen it had all sorts of tiny particles adhered to it. I’m betting aerosolize grease from cooking had beautifully layed itself all over that primed island.
The reason the paint chipped was because you let your primer sit for too long without a top coat. I’m sure you prepped and primed it properly, but when you don’t top coat a primer within days, it loses its adhesive properties and gets pretty smooth actually. I work at Sherwin-Williams all of my trim and cabinets are pro classic and it’s been nothing short of perfection
Yes!!! You Are exactly correct. -paint specialist
I spent weeks painting my cabinets with Benjamin Moore exactly according to their instructions. Waited for a month for it to cure. Now they’re chipping. Definitely wouldn’t recommend them.
Really? Can you leave more details of your process so people can see what happened?
xo – kb
I keep seeing references to Zinsser Primer. I have used the oil-based version on raw wood and I can’t share anyone’s enthusiasm for Zinsser. It is extremely thick and went on like corduroy. So much for a smooth painting surface for the topcoat. I did not experience this with Kilz Original. As for BM Impervo, I’m using it on my new, raw wood cabinet doors. I’ve had problems with brush marks because the paint has been reformulated since I last used it 15 years ago. Before, it went on beautifully straight from the can. Now, I have to thin it, although the instructions say not to. I also add Penetrol. Even with these changes and a top quality brush, I’m not getting the ultra smooth finish I used to. I have also used SW with great satisfaction, but have not done so in many years so I can’t say what it’s like now. I always use oil on kitchen cabinets.
I am a painter and have done many cabinets through the years. I live Sherwin Williams products but I would not use that one on cabinets. They sell what is called “acrylic alkyd” Pro Classics that is essentially an oil base that cleans up with water (it’a hybrid between the two-dont ask me how that’s possible). This works VERY well on cabinets and really should have been what you compared to the Advance. The finish even levels much like a 100% oil-based paint (which still is ultimately the best to use if you can get it and don’t mind working with it). Try that in the future.
One variable you ar not taking into account is that you let the island sit primed for longer than the wall cabinets before painting. That delay could have jeopardized the effectiveness of the primer. The primer should only be left naked for a week or two or 30 days max. Since it peeled down to the wood, I’m guessing this is what happened! Not fair to blame the paint. Also, who knows there could have been something spilled on the bare primer at this point too. Really a terrible comparison considering the time difference before painting bare primer!
We went back and fourth ourselves and ended up with Benjamin Moore Advance as well. Good prep work before the first coat of primer is always going to make or break your outcome.
We used Benjamin Moore Advance a couple years ago on our kitchen cabinets. We had a cabinet maker design custom cabinets to our specifications. He used grade MDF on the center panels and they kept raising up no matter what primer we tried. I finally ended up talking to an old timer in the painting industry and he said to use shellac on it. Sure enough it laid on superb and sanded smoother then I have ever felt anything sand. It was almost like a silk smooth finish.
We then sprayed the BM Advance on with two very thin coats, then one last heavier coat.. Once they were done we transferred them into our garage and hung the doors on strings. We let the hot Louisiana heat harden them for about 3 weeks while they hung in the garage.
It has now been about 2-1/4 years and they still are bullet proof for stains, wiping down and anything else we throw at it. The price, ouch. But for something as a kitchen cabinet, or stair rails, or bathroom/closet doors, hands down worth every penny. If you don’t plan on keeping the house, not worth it.
I never spray either and find that the advanced by BM levels fine and dries great…the Proclassic on the other hand I have had issues with…
Not even close in my mind…when I paint cabinets I always choose Advanced
Call me crazy, but I think if there was truly a problem with ProClassic, they’d have fixed it by now or lowered the price. At first blush, I’d say an incompatible primer was used or the original finish wasn’t prepped properly prior to painting (cleaning, sanding). A true comparison would have dictated that half the island was painted in BM Advanced and the other with SW ProClassic.
Yes – that is a good point. I’d love to do this again in a more controlled experiment 🙂
xo – kb
It could have been the deglosser or the primer that caused the issue with SW ProClassic. It also could have been the thin coats. I have used and recommended this product for a while now and have never had any issue. Did you ask the store about it? If it truly is an issue with the paint itself then they will make it right. Also, try Dorian Gray SW7017 or Acier SW9170. They are a taupe gray with more gray. They have NO blue undertones like most grays have. Hope this helps.
Great details but a few things are missing and that is,
1. Ben Moore advanced is a waterbased alkyd. Not sure if it’s urethanized but it’s different chemically than sherwin Williams pro classic which is a waterbased enamel. A true comparison would be sherwin William’s emerald urethane trim which is also a waterbased alkyd that’s urethanized.
2. Chances are that the chipping was caused from a paint film being sprayed too thin. Most contractors don’t measure proper paint film.
No need to measure if you put the finish on correctly . Chipping is almost always caused from substandard paint and poor prep work. If its sprayed it needs the correct tip to apply the finish. If its brushed and rolled then just by the method of correct application, one undercoat two top coats it will get the right mill’s. Oil paint is far superior over any water borne when done right.
Retired painting contractor
Hi Amy,
Did you hand prime with oil? Its a must. Then did you spray with Stix primer? Did you clean with mineral spirits first? Sand with 220 grit? Clean with denatured alcohol? OOPPS! I bet not. Did you sand between coats? I know the answer….no. Neither one of these products are sandable. Did you topcoat with a high quality waterborne varnish? Try the Faux Effects line. See my website.
I use hundreds of gallons of Advance every year. Yes I’m a painter. Hands downs Advance is by far better than pro classic. Yes it does take longer to cure, but it’s durable and smooth as silk. That’s all I’ll say since there were obviously some amateur errors done here
That’s an amazing testimony for Advance. I will definitely agree with you that I could definitely improve the testing but glad to see that the end conclusion was the same.
xo – kb
Not all. I’ve used benjamin moore and wont again because it’s still soft after months. I have used sw pro classic on all of my trim and have ZERO chips. I doubt this was prepeared right, they said they had it primed for a while- well in that while im sure it got fingerprints, grease spots etc on it. I go for sw all the way, drying hard is my number one must.